This story was updated at 3:15 p.m. Thursday to add a statement from Oklahoma City Mayor David Holt, which was sent over text after the original story was published.
Community members and experts criticized OU President Joseph Harroz Jr.’s threat to look elsewhere to build a proposed $1 billion entertainment district that would feature a new arena, for which OU basketball and women’s gymnastics would be the anchor tenants, if Norman City Council doesn’t approve it, saying such an ultimatum undermines the goals of college athletics and makes no sense.
In a sit-down interview with OU Daily Tuesday, Harroz said that while he’s hopeful the proposed entertainment district, which was announced in September and would feature a new arena that several OU teams would be the anchor tenants of, would stay in Norman, the university would look to partner with other cities, like Moore or Oklahoma City, to build the development if necessary.
Harroz said he knows it’s a big ask, but he said it’s a necessary one.
The proposed arena to be located in the entertainment district would have roughly 8,000 seats, according to Sean Rieger of Rieger Law Group, an attorney representing the applicant of the project, University North Park LLC. Out of the 14 arenas in the Southeastern Conference, OU’s soon-to-be conference, only Mississippi’s (9,500) and Auburn’s (9,121) have a sub-10,000 capacity.
With conference realignments coming this summer and a new landscape shaped by NIL, Harroz’s threat combats the essence of college athletics, which was initially created to support and provide a sense of community, school spirit and competition, an economist focused on the effects of athletic teams and sports facilities told OU Daily Wednesday.
“In that world, where you're trying to build community and school spirit, it makes no sense to say, ‘I'm going to threaten the town where we are, tell them I'm gonna put my (arena) somewhere else if they don't build the (arena),’” Andrew Zimbalist, Roberts A. Woods professor emeritus of economics at Smith College in Massachusetts, told OU Daily. “Because that would undermine what the primary purpose or at least the original purpose was of having school sports. … It undermines the fundamental purpose and value of the whole enterprise.”
Read what Harroz said Tuesday:
Dan Schemm, executive director of Visit Norman and member of Team Norman, told OU Daily Thursday morning that moving OU’s basketball and gymnastics programs out of the city would greatly affect the community.
“If that were to happen, I think it would be a travesty for the community,” Schemm said. “OU gymnastics, OU men’s and women’s basketball is a part of the fabric of Norman as well as all of OU athletics, so to lose those to another community would be awful.”
Ward 7 Councilmember Stephen Tyler Holman said Norman and OU have worked together in the past, so Harroz’s statements about potentially moving some of the university’s teams out of the city caught him off guard.
He said Norman and OU have a history of collaborating, and so moving out of the city doesn’t make sense.
“We’ve done a lot in Norman with OU, and you know it would be very odd to me if the university played another of their sporting events at a venue outside of the city of Norman on a regular basis,” Holman said.
Zimbalist, who has written on the effects of teams and their facilities in cities such as Oakland, California, said it makes business sense, while he disagrees with the ethics, for professional athletic teams to make such threats. In recent years, Oakland has lost its NFL and NBA teams and next stands to see its MLB team depart.
Just north of Norman, the ownership group of Oklahoma City’s NBA team, led by Thunder chairman and former OU Board of Regents Chairman Clay Bennett, encouraged voters in December to support a new arena for the team. Mayor David Holt, Bennett and others said that if the team does not build a new arena by 2026, Oklahoma City could lose its only major professional team.
The Lloyd Noble Center, currently home to OU basketball and women’s gymnastics, was built in 1975 and has a capacity of 10,967. OU men’s basketball has not made an NCAA tournament appearance since 2021 and has had attendance struggles as of late, with an average attendance of 7,670 this season.
The SEC garnered a conference-wide average attendance of over 11,000 in 2023, with the sole arena that is off campus being Kentucky basketball’s Rupp Arena having an average attendance of 19,928 for men’s basketball this season.
The Paycom Center, which has been home to the Thunder since 2008, was built in 2002 and has a capacity of about 18,203. The Thunder, who have not made the playoffs since 2020 but currently sit at the No. 3 seed in the Western Conference, have had an average attendance of 17,415 for the 2023-24 season.
“It's not something I favor, but it's one thing if the owner of the Oklahoma City Thunder says, ‘I'm gonna move the team back to Seattle unless you build me a new stadium or new arena,’” Zimbalist said. “I think it's unethical when that happens, but it doesn't disrupt the purpose of the NBA. If the Oklahoma City Thunder go back to Seattle, it’s still the NBA. But given college sports (are) supposed to have this other purpose, it just makes no sense.”
For collegiate athletics, which he said traditionally has played to a higher purpose of school spirit, amateurism and connection within a university, the threat doesn’t have the same effect as threats a professional sports team makes.
OU will officially move to the SEC in June, a year earlier than originally intended. With the transition comes more opportunity for revenue earned through television deals, such as the SEC’s new deal with ESPN and ABC starting this fall with the latter having rights to the 3:30 p.m. SEC game. Projections of the new $300 million-a-year deal have shown the payout per school could exceed $70 million.
OU’s transition to the SEC is pivotal to the future of the university and athletics, Harroz said. Harroz has said in the past and reiterated Tuesday that students’ tuition and fees do not go toward athletics, and the SEC transition prolongs students from footing the bill for athletics. Harroz said had OU stayed in the Big 12 conference, students’ fees would have gone toward athletics much sooner. Athletics has not reported receiving allocated revenue directly from the university or student fees since 2008. In 2021, however, there was some indirect institutional support due to the COVID-19 pandemic.
A preliminary plan for the proposed $1 billion entertainment district project development. The red represents the proposed arena and the orange is the mixed-use housing development. The light blue represents other entertainment, restaurants, retail, office, hospitality and conference locations. The dark blue is detention space, the spotted grey is a parking garage and the green represents green space.
‘Completely wasteful’
The new mayor of Moore, home of longtime Sooner fan and donor Toby Keith, Mark Hamm told OU Daily he’d be open to discussing a possible entertainment district or arena for OU athletics in his city if asked. Hamm, who was sworn in on Monday, said no one a part of Moore leadership has been approached or contacted by the university.
“I would be interested in talking to whoever the people are, but there’s just so many unknowns at this point for me to speculate on things based upon the president’s comments,” Hamm said. “It would be different if we had maybe had some conversations, but nobody’s reached out to us to talk about it. ... Honestly, it’s hard to see OU basketball playing home games anywhere outside of Norman.”
Schemm said he is aware that cities have reached out to OU in hopes of talking about moving the entertainment district, but he did not know which cities or leaders those would be.
“I do know that other communities have talked to OU and would love to work with them to try and build a venue for those athletic events to take place,” Schemm said.
Holt sent a statement to OU Daily Thursday afternoon saying he has not had conversations with OU about a proposed entertainment district or arena.
“We’ll always talk to developers about new projects in OKC and obviously we have a longstanding relationship with OU, who already has their medical and MBA programs in OKC," Holt wrote. "There are no active conversations about this right now, but we’re always open-minded."
Along with the new arena to house the Thunder, the OKC Fairgrounds Coliseum broke ground in February 2023, a $144 million project that will seat about 4,700 for horse shows and will include retractable seating to accommodate up to 7,500 for events like concerts, graduations and high school wrestling and basketball games. The Thunder arena, coliseum and proposed Norman arena in the entertainment district sit within a 30-mile radius of one another.
When it was proposed in September, the $1 billion entertainment district, which has fluctuated in exact cost as Norman Economic Development Coalition President Lawrence McKinney and Harroz told OU Daily this week that the cost was closer to $1.1 billion, would be roughly financed by private donors and university funding covering 80% with the public financing covering the remaining 20% through a tax increment finance district in the area.
Zimbalist said if Oklahoma City and the university shared the Oklahoma City Thunder’s arena with Sooners basketball and women’s gymnastics, the arrangement could be beneficial in some capacity to the city by minimizing OU’s investment costs while hosting games for some of its more visible teams in a more compelling venue.
If the entertainment district project moved to Moore, Cleveland County, which includes Norman, could still reap some financial benefits, whereas a move to Oklahoma City, located in Oklahoma County, would diminish future financial benefits to the city of Norman, Schemm said.
The state would also be putting in money for the project, according to Schemm. Through the Oklahoma Enterprise Zone Incentive Leverage Act, the state provides funding for local governments to match local tax revenue dedicated to support a project located in an enterprise zone, or in support of a major tourism destination project.
Projects that have utilized the Leverage Act include the Dell Facility, Devon Tower, OKANA Resort & Indoor Waterpark, Omni Convention Center and the Skirvin Hotel in Oklahoma City.
Schemm said this act would allow the city to pay off the TIF quickly.
To a question about building a new arena or entertainment district in Oklahoma City outside of the Thunder arena or new arena at the state fairgrounds, Zimbalist was blunt in his assessment.
“That just strikes me as completely wasteful,” Zimbalist said. “I don't know why Oklahoma City would do that.”
Zimbalist said off-campus athletic venues are not always viable, such as for UConn’s football stadium, which is roughly 19 miles from campus, or University of Massachusetts’ attempt to play at Gillette Stadium, which is over 90 miles from Amherst, when it entered the FBS in 2012.
Programs like UCLA can get around it due to its notoriety and being grandfathered into playing football at the Rose Bowl (roughly 25 miles from its campus), and the same could be said for Rupp Arena for Kentucky basketball (just over one mile from its campus).
With the exception of Rupp, most SEC arenas are located on their respective school’s campuses and all are in the same city as the university. OU’s Norman campus is roughly 5.5 miles from the proposed location of the entertainment district, over 10 miles from Moore and over 22 miles from downtown Oklahoma City and the location of the Paycom Center.
While OU women’s gymnastics, which is seeking to win its third straight national championship, saw a season total attendance record of 43,022 through five home meets — averaging just over 8,600 fans per meet, OU basketball suffers from poor attendance with its arena, the Lloyd Noble Center, located on the south side of campus.
Lloyd Noble Cener during the game against BYU on Feb. 6.
The men’s team has failed to average an attendance above 9,000 each of the past five seasons, excluding the 2021 COVID season when attendance was limited, and have had three straight seasons of sub-8,000 averages. Before then, the last time OU had an average attendance below 8,000 was during Billy Tubbs’ final season as head coach in 1994.
Meanwhile, the OU women have gone eight consecutive years, excluding the 2021 COVID season, averaging fewer than 5,000 fans per game, meaning an average game consists of more empty seats than fans.
Holman said Wednesday that moving the arena closer to Oklahoma City and closer to the Thunder would only be a further detriment to attendance for OU basketball.
“It’s great having a pro sports team in the metro, but it hasn’t been helpful for OSU and OU basketball attendance,” Holman said. “People are going to choose to go see the Thunder play over going to see OU and OSU play, that’s what we’ve seen for the last decade plus. … That doesn’t really make any sense to me.”
Advocates for the entertainment district, including Harroz, Sooners athletic director Joe Castiglione, McKinney and Norman Chamber of Commerce president Scott Martin, have routinely touted that the proposed development alongside I-35 would bring in more crowds and revenue for Norman and OU athletics.
While the LNC is located off Highway 9, roughly two miles from the interstate, the proposed arena would sit right off and be visible from I-35, which several advocates have said would boost attendance and spending in Norman.
“The kinds of things that will develop at I-35 around an entertainment venue is much different than coming off the interstate and not having the visibility (or) not having the traffic,” McKinney told OU Daily in January ahead of the February Norman Planning Commission meeting.
The development for the proposed entertainment district has come across the Norman Planning Commission three times, in December, January and February, the last of which postponed discussions until April 11.
Ahead of the commission’s February meeting, McKinney, Martin and Schemm told OU Daily in a sit-down interview in January that they were eager to see discussions come before city leaders.
“We're as anxious as everybody else is to get more of the ball rolling faster,” Martin said at the time.
On Wednesday, McKinney did not address Harroz’s comments about moving the arena or entertainment district plans out of Norman, but he did indicate the proposal will finally move forward into public discussions.
“(In) April, there'll be a lot of conversation, a lot of things are going to come out probably,” McKinney said. “I think they're going to come out publicly this week.”
Dan Schemm and Scott Martin during the ribbon cutting ceremony on Feb. 19.
‘I don’t think it would pass’
Holman told OU Daily last week that in his experience being on city council for the past 11 years, he has not seen something be postponed that many times, saying typically applicants have a plan when going to the commission or ask for postponement only once.
A master plan or final project plan has not been released publicly as of Thursday morning.
Schemm, who is a member of Team Norman and has heavily been involved with the project since its inception, told OU Daily Thursday morning while he has seen various versions of the plan, he has never seen the full or complete project plan that would be presented to planning commission or council.
Norman City Council adopted a resolution in November creating a TIF review committee for the proposed tax increment financing within the entertainment district. The statutory review committee will meet Friday morning.
When asked if he thought the measure would pass council, Holman did not hold back his estimate.
“I would tell you right now, I don’t think it would pass,” Holman said. “Even if Matt (Peacock) and I voted for it.”
Matt Peacock currently represents Ward 8, which includes the University North Park area and the location of the proposed entertainment district. Due to ward realignments, Peacock ran for the Ward 2 seat to replace Councilmember Lauren Schueler, who did not run for reelection.
Ahead of the runoff, in which Peacock faced Russell Rice, Peacock pulled back previous sentiments about the entertainment district, saying he needed to see a project plan and have more information in order to firm up his opinion. Peacock previously had asked his constituents to give the development a chance, saying NEDC and Team Norman have done a “fantastic” job collaborating and bringing different leaders together.
The entertainment district was a prominent issue between Peacock and Rice, who adamantly stood against the development.
On Facebook, Peacock wrote he’s seen several versions of proposed details, more than the public as a sitting council member, regarding the district and will take any detail regarding the district as a potential until the applicant has a concrete proposal.
Holman said one of his holdups is the TIF district that would help fund the entertainment district.
A TIF is used to support the redevelopment, infrastructure and community-improvement projects within a certain area with the intent of stimulating private investment in the area in need of economic revitalization.
Zimbalist said that for TIFs to work, businesses have to be willing to move into the area of development. Oftentimes, this can be done through tax abatements or other incentives. Without those incentives, however, asking for a business to move its operation to another area of town can be a big ask.
“Most of them (businesses) will be coming from somewhere in the greater Norman area. And what that generally means is that they're going to close down their existing venue in order to create a new venue that's close to the basketball arena,” Zimbalist said. “And so they're not really generating new revenue for the city of Norman. They're just moving where the revenue comes from.”
For the entertainment district, a TIF in the district accrued from property and sales taxes would go toward financing and paying for the development as a whole. Holman said, committing those taxes in that area for 25 years to finance the area is a big ask.
“I have a lot of heartburn about the idea of committing 100% sales tax for 25 years,” Holman said. “I think that’s a really tall order for the council alone to make without a public vote.”
TIFs do not have to go for a public vote as they’re only within a designated area and are not a utilities increase or citywide tax increase, such as in the case of the new Oklahoma City Thunder arena or the three-eighths of a cent citywide sales tax shot down by Kansas City voters Tuesday that would have supported the NFL and MLB teams there.
Liz McKown, who represents the ward encompassing University North Park on the Norman Planning Commission, told OU Daily she would not speak on Harroz’s statements, but she said she feels the entertainment district as a whole would lead to good possibilities for Norman.
“I would be very sad to see all the possibilities that we have here in Norman go somewhere outside of Norman,” McKown said. “I think that would be very sad, and I think it’s the wrong way.”
Norman City Council Ward 7 Councilmember Stephen Tyler Holman during the Norman City Council meeting on Feb. 28.
On July 2, Norman City Council will seat newly elected officials, changing the composition of council and possibly the outcome of the entertainment district vote.
Schueler, Foreman, Ward 3 Councilmember Bree Montoya, Ward 4 Councilmember Helen Grant and Ward 5 Councilmember Michael Nash have not publicly stated which way they’d vote for the entertainment district.
At the November council meeting that approved the statutory TIF review committee, Schueler said she was concerned there was no project plan, and made a motion to postpone the vote until a project plan was brought forward, a motion that ended up failing. Montoya said at the meeting that not having a feasibility study publicly available or a project plan gives her pause, especially as the majority of constituents in her ward do not support the entertainment district.
Nash, who represents east Norman, called the business model “flimsy” during the November council meeting, but said it could have the makings of something good for the city. Grant also opposed the matter and said they wanted to see a project plan before making a decision. Foreman said she was frustrated with what she had seen of the financial side of the project, but the committee might help propel discussions and bring more clarity. The statutory review committee creation was approved 5-4, with Nash, Grant, Montoya and Schueler voting against.
Ward 2, 6 and 8 will see new representation from Peacock, Joshua Hinkle and Scott Dixon, respectively, and to Holman, a new configuration of council could lead to the entertainment district’s passage.
Dixon, who will represent the area encompassing UNP starting in July, wrote in a text to OU Daily Wednesday that he agrees with Harroz’s statements and that the city needs to pass and get the entertainment district underway as soon as possible.
“I agree with President Harroz that we need to get this done and get it done now. This project will provide the housing and growth Norman needs for our future,” Dixon wrote.
Schemm said, on the planning commission side, he knows of some members who support the project and will move it forward. However, he does not have a gauge of council or planning commission as a whole to know if the project will pass.
“I would hope that the planning commission approves it,” Schemm said. “But I don't ever like to get into handicapping how individuals (might) see things in one vote. … Some of the commissioners I've talked to so far have been supportive of it, but I certainly haven't talked to all of them (to) have a feel for which way that would go.”
McKinney said he’s confident the entertainment district will move through and be approved by city council in coming months, despite previous statements in which he expressed that while he was eager to see discussions take place, he did not know how council would receive the plan.
McKinney and his wife Elizabeth came to Norman in 2021 and both started canvassing and learning about the city. McKinney previously worked in Athens, Georgia, home of the University of Georgia, where he was president of the city’s chamber and regularly worked alongside city and university officials to better the city and bring synergy to its processes.
As he started working in Norman, McKinney told OU Daily in 2023 that he saw how the city and university were at odds more so than in Georgia, where the Athens City Council was made up of mostly professors and members of the university community at the time.
When McKinney started establishing Team Norman, a group of university, city and private sector leaders focused on preparing the city and university for OU’s move to the SEC, he wanted to propel Norman as a household name. He wanted to bring in business, retain graduates from OU to stay in the city and reconnect the city and university to help its success move forward.
Since then, the city has seen some smaller scale changes, such as branded flags along streets in Norman and a new bus route system to better include the OU campus. With the entertainment district project, university officials and city leaders have had more discussions that, until Harroz’s statement Tuesday, were, while tense and slow rolling at times, seemingly productive and calculated, according to McKinney.
Elizabeth has since left the AIM Norman Comprehensive Plan Steering Committee, a committee in charge of creating the city of Norman’s new master plan for the next 20 years. Months ago, McKinney told OU Daily and others that a feasibility study would be released soon, which has not occurred, as well as a project plan for the entertainment district, which also has not been released publicly.
“I'm confident that we've got a city council and a (planning) commission that looks at facts,” McKinney said Wednesday in the wake of Harroz’s ultimatum. “It looks at the numbers, looks at the impact, looks at how it can help Norman as a city and Cleveland County.
“And they'll do the right thing.”
Jason Batacao, Kevin Eagleson, Thomas Pablo and Peggy Dodd contributed to the reporting of this story. This story was edited by Peggy Dodd, Anusha Fathepure and Gracie Rawlings.
Read more about the entertainment district:
