The Daily sat down with Reza Aslan after his lecture at the Sam Noble Oklahoma Museum of Natural History Thursday evening and asked the scholar about rhetoric and religion.
Q: You ended your presentation by saying that the only way to win a cosmic war is to not fight one, but you began it by listing ways in which the war on terror has already been cast as a religious war by both Osama bin Laden and George W. Bush. Is it too late to change the rhetoric?
I don’t think so for a couple of reasons. One, because you have to understand that the Arab and Muslim world understands us much more than we understand it.
Partly that’s because they have no choice. I mean, they’re inundated by American news and culture and society. It’s everywhere around them. That’s what we talk about when we talk about the “McDonaldization” of the globe.
And partly, it’s because they are [enthralled with] American decisions. What we decide to do here even on a domestic level affects their livelihood. The passing of the economic stimulus plan in America will directly affect that poor 13-year-old kid in Egypt.
So they understand how things work here in this country. They know that there is a mechanism in place in the U.S. government that can’t be fundamentally altered. They know that we’re not going to suddenly give up our support for Israel. That’s not going to happen.
What they’re looking for, however, is these very important micro-changes. One is the way that the Muslim world is addressed. A perfect example of this would be Barack Obama in the interview that he gave to al-Arabiyya television where he had an opportunity to address the “clash of civilizations” issue.
And instead of engaging in those sort of rhetorical flourishes, [Obama] said something very basic and yet very profound: ‘Let me ask you, are your children better off today than they were before? Are they better off under Hamas? Are they going to school in Pakistan? Do you think your kids are better off with the way things are?’ That, I think had a profound affect on the Muslim world because it wasn’t talking down anymore.
The truth is that the Muslim world doesn’t expect that much from America, and so it can be pleasantly surprised in a very easy way. Just the fact that Obama has yet to actually use the phrase “war on terror” speaks volumes to this region, who is used to seeing its relationship with the United States through this cosmic lens.
Q: To what extent do the attitudes of ordinary Americans, like the 250 you addressed here tonight, influence the terms of this conflict?
The truth of the matter is that we are a country in which popular sovereignty actually matters. The reason that our politicians speak “religiousese,” the language of religion, is because we like the language of religion, that’s why.
If there were some profound sea change in the attitudes on the street toward some aspect of American foreign policy, American foreign policy would change immediately.
So it is very important to talk to the 250 people at OU because it’s their minds that can be changed, and their change of mind is what’s going to change our policy.
Talking to legislators for me doesn’t do anything. Because they will do what they think the American public wants them to do.
Q: Is there something that you wish the American evangelicals, whose attitudes you say are influential in shaping American foreign policy, understood better about Islam?
That it’s not a foreign or exotic religion.
The example that I use is Jews in the twentieth century. When you see someone, even if they claim to share the same sort of biblical prophetic tradition as you do — which of course the Jews do, and so do the Muslims — if they look different, if they speak differently, if they act differently, if their conception of religious rituals is different, then they seem different.
It takes while for that to break down. And it hasn’t broken down completely when it comes to Jews by any means. But nevertheless, there is a widespread sense that’s obvious in the very term ‘Judeo-Christian’ that these two communities are one.
And I think the same thing is going to happen with Islam. People are going to realize that, wait a second, it’s the same stories. It’s the same myths. It’s the same figures: Abraham, Moses, Jesus. It’s the same morals. It’s the same values, it’s the same cosmology.
Q: [Atheist activist and author] Sam Harris thinks that people of different religions can’t even talk to each other. What is your opinion of interfaith dialogue?
Sam Harris is a moron. You can quote me on that. Sam Harris is a moron.
Look, I think interfaith dialogue is important insofar as dialogue is always important. It’s important to sit around and talk to people who think differently, who feel differently. The problem I have with interfaith dialogue is that it usually ends with dialogue. Which is great, but then what?
Dialogue is important in cultures that are not as pluralistic as ours. Interfaith dialogue is important in a place like Egypt because the Copts and the Jews and the Christians don’t live near each other, they don’t integrate with each other, they’re ethnically and religiously isolated and so it’s important for them to come together and talk.
Interfaith dialogue in the United States is the easiest thing in the world. Go to your deli! Go see your dentist! That’s it. It’s simple. So we have to create something new.
We have to go from interfaith dialogue to interfaith action. That’s what’s important. It’s not enough just to sit around with people of different faiths and cultures and ethnicities and talk about how you feel. Do something about it!
I have nothing against interfaith dialogue. I think it’s a good thing in and of itself. But it’s only the beginning.
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mikedavis 3 years, 2 months ago
Sam Harris is actually a pretty smart guy. He may be wrong about interfaith dialogue, but he shouldn't be called a moron.
Mr. Aslan should be a bit more professional in his comments about other authors.